This week, Courtney Nicole interviews digital content creator Abbie G about finding your community, the beauty and fluidity of being non-binary, and the power of self-acceptance
Check out Abbie G's Podcast, Website, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, and LinkedIn to learn more about what she does.
Want to engage with Courtney Nicole? Check out Courtney Nicole's LinkedIn, Sidecar Solutions, and Nonpareil Coaching for next steps.
This week, Courtney Nicole interviews digital content creator Abbie G about finding your community, the beauty and fluidity of being non-binary, and the power of self-acceptance
Check out Abbie G's Podcast, Website, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, and LinkedIn to learn more about what she does.
Want to engage with Courtney Nicole? Check out Courtney Nicole's LinkedIn, Sidecar Solutions, and Nonpareil Coaching for next steps.
Hello and welcome to the podcast, What Our Parents Didn't Teach Us. This is a place where we will be creating space to discuss all the lessons that we've learned along the way that have led us to where we are today. We'll have conversations with entrepreneurs and freelancers and people from all over the world about what it means to be successful. And the things that we've learned that we hope to pass on to you. I'm your fearless host, courtney Nicole. I'm a coach that currently resides in Denver, Colorado with my wife, two dogs and plus or minus 27 plants. And I can't wait to talk to you. Hello, and welcome to the podcast What Our Parents Didn't Teach Us. I am here today with Abby G, and we're going to be talking about success, about living abroad, about digital content creation, about the queer community, and about just our different experiences around the world. Abby is coming to us from South Korea, which is really exciting. Abby, tell us a bit more about you and what you do.
Abbie G:Yes, my name's Abby G, as Courtney said, I am in South Korea. I am a digital content creator, I create content via YouTube, via my own podcast, as well as a little other podcasts. My podcast called Thoughts On That. And I also live stream via Twitch. I'm a gamer, and I live stream music, talking, comedy, and also livestream on spoon radio. And I also like to create queer events and all that has taken its digital route, which has been an amazing experience so far.
Courtney Nicole:I love how many different platforms have embraced this whole watch together concept. Cause that's what we really missed a lot was just having somebody come over and sit on your couch and yeah, having them close was nice as well, but also just being able to at the same moment, be like, Oh no!
Abbie G:Right. Yeah. Yeah. It's amazing what we can do with the internet. I feel like even though it is tough times, I feel like the internet has really pulled us through in terms of finding community and like doing things together in real time. So it's been cool.
Courtney Nicole:What do you think is the number one thing people miss when they aren't able to get out and go with their friends and find the community that they've been able to find online and through some of your events.
Abbie G:I think just seeing facial expressions as well. Like we always think, Oh, we can't get the real experience between people laughing or talking, but I think just seeing them on a screen, if we're able to do that or hearing voices also, if we're able to do that, I think that small connection is really impactful digitally as well. So I think that's something that we can access through the internet.
Courtney Nicole:That's awesome. So more physically, where you live in South Korea. You talked about it being more of a conservative country and representing the queer community, how has that journey been for you?
Abbie G:It's been ups and downs a lot. Since coming to Korea, I've been here for about four years now. I never really identified or found my identity as a queer person until I came to Korea. And I think that's because being alone as a foreigner, I needed to find that community. So I stuck to them more. And it's been a little difficult because, in Korea there aren't any anti-discrimination laws, if you are outed at a work or not. So I've been having to again, play it safe, especially I am an English teacher here as well. And I think that has a huge impact of how I navigate. And other than that though, when I am not in work, I'm able to really connect with those outside of that space. So again, like finding people through chats, through digital events and luckily like in the bigger cities, such as Seoul, they are more open. So I do tend to flock towards there. I'm not in Seoul, I'm in De Jong just smaller city, but yeah, there's that As the years have been going, it's been getting a lot better. The more people I meet, especially more younger Koreans, they've been able to become more aware of what non-binary is, trans, and other parts of the LGBTQ+ community. And so that's been really refreshing, because I think there's a huge misconception that Korea's so conservative that people don't even know, like with gay or lesbian, but, and that's just kind of like a dirty word, but that's not the case. I think it's just more people haven't been as exposed to it, but are really open to learning. And so that's definitely been my experience.
Courtney Nicole:That's awesome. I love that you talked so openly about your experience, about the journey that you've been on. What has that been like for you personally, like coming out as non-binary, how long have you used they/them pronouns? What's that been like for you?
Abbie G:Yeah. So I came out recently this past year as a non-binary person. I think I have my community to thank for, because I got that exposure. Like my partner is non-binary and I think because I started dating them, I realized, Oh, I am, I'm not a woman. And I feel like gender is so fluid and being able to be around other people like that has really helped me like find my own skin. And I've been really thankful for. Having that representation, like in my own friend group. Having that, the small representations and like media, the small amount there is, they're still somewhat validating. It's been interesting. I've been exploring that, especially with like my body and like my hairstyles and something that, I'm realizing that's going to be changing all the time. Like sometimes I can use she pronouns, but I'm still like non-binary. And I think that's really interesting how I can really be fluid with that. And it makes it even greater that it's so, non concrete, it just that's life.
Courtney Nicole:Yeah, it's just fluid and it's just what ever comes out of someone's mouth. I went to a pride event a few years back and was misgendered on the way in. And for me personally, I do feel that it's quite fluid. I use she her pronouns, but the person at the gate said step forward, sir. Or, you can come on forward and it didn't bother me. And I think that that was also coming from a place of my own privilege and not really having to identify with a specific pronoun, but allowing it to just be a part of who I represented that day. And I wish that society could get more okay with that. Of course, it being a pride event and everything the person who was saying that very quickly was like, Oh my goodness. I'm so sorry. I sincerely apologize. And I was like, it's okay. Hey, you know, we're all learning this together. But I think just learning how to be more fluent in that language, how to not be offensive and how to create a really welcoming space for those that may feel dystopic when the wrong pronouns are used. So for somebody who maybe is new to this concept, I had someone just the other day on a discovery call asking why I put my pronouns in my name on Zoom. And I had to explain to them like, this is, this is why, and this is why it's important to me. And this is why it's important to the community that I represent and that I celebrate. So for people that are just starting out, can you kind of explain what that journey is like when you are non-binary and trying to create awareness around it?
Abbie G:Right. So to start off, the gender binary is what society tells us a man is versus society tells us, us what a woman is. And so society tells us that we have to fit into those two gender roles. And I personally don't think I fit what traditionally, what a woman is. And I feel like having the option, seeing that there's something outside of that where I can be a little more ambiguous and neutral is a little more grounding for me. And someone I would say, who is just discovering that as well, play around with it. Play around with with gender maybe try different pronouns. I think for me trying they/them and Zee/zem and like different pronouns that are out there other than she/her has been really liberating. And when I hear it used for me, I think it's like, Oh, I feel comfortable with that. Because when people call me a woman, when people call me by she or her, it feels a little, a little jarring because it's like, mmm, I don't know if I specifically fit in that or there's something off about it. And I feel like just trying those genders out, or the different pronouns is a really good way of figuring what works for you.
Courtney Nicole:I think there's many areas in our society that are just like, we're conditioned to think a certain way. So when we see a person, we just immediately want to assign them a gender. And when I've worked with non-binary individuals in the past, one of their biggest things that they've said again, and again, is just don't assume gender. Just go with they/them, and then either that's their preferred pronoun or he, she will correct you and let you know which, pronouns they like used. But I think let's go for the lesser. Let's go for the non-binary. Let's celebrate the less represented parts of society and create a space for them. And then they will rise to the top and we will all feel better. And then we'll be more comfortable. Because I think with someone who identifies as she/her or he/him is mis-gendered or is misunderstood, it's easier for them to go back and say, no, these are my pronouns. But when someone who identifies as non-binary is mis-gendered, it requires so much explanation that sometimes it doesn't feel like it's worth it. And in that, we're really failing that community because we aren't coming out and advocating and creating a space for them to be who they are. And I think that's created quite this just like space in communities and in society where they just feel like I just don't have the energy today to cross this, especially because non-binary in pop culture and everything else is becoming more known, but isn't as well known as we would hope at this time in 2021. And so every single day, they're having to work through issues that they're going on in their life a lot of times, or they are, like you said, more recently have come out or have started to use different pronouns. And that takes a lot of energy. And when that kind of energy is being spent just to you, yourself, know who you are when you look in the mirror, then for someone else to literally contradict that with the pronouns that they use to address you could really be jarring for someone who's trying to discover who they were meant to be on this earth.
Abbie G:So true. Yeah. I think again, like the little amount that venue, energy, someone, an ally can, can use really takes the weight off. Cause I've, I've had days where it's just like Oh, someone mis-gendered me again. But it's just like, how many times does that happen in a day? And how many times can I do that per day? I think it really adds up, especially we have our own battles in the queer community, outside of the queer community that we have to face. And we also just that small battle I think can be really helped with allyship.
Courtney Nicole:For sure. Yeah. I love just talking about it in general. I think that there is unawareness in a lot of areas of society and I'm really grateful for the pandemic and what it did, and kind of just separating us from all the crazy and the noise for a minute and allowing us to say, no, this matters to me. And I've also found that unless you can you yourself identify some way in which you feel underrepresented or misrepresented, it's going to be difficult for you to see that in someone else. And I think that entire conversation sheds a beautiful light on the idea of perspective, right? So when you go to someone you're like, that hurt me. Or that this me. Or that this. It may not feel that way to them, but you need the recognition for the battle going on inside you. So even if it's not the same, and I don't believe it is the same battle that we're fighting with systemic racism with, I mean, genders with all of these different areas of the queer community and all of this, trying to evolve in our world. If you can just identify an area of your life that you felt underrepresented, maybe even for like parents out there that were just like, Oh, you're just a mom. No, no, I'm so much more, can you get to know me as a human? Can you get to know me as more than a YouTube star, more than a mom, more than a CEO, I'm a human. And we have to get back to that and recognize the human and each other, and therefore the human experience. Because, scientifically and physiologically there's actually no reality. Reality is what we create inside our heads. It's what we take in through our senses and make up this picture. That's no, this is reality. Reality is comprised of this many, this, this many, this and people that look this way. And I think reality is just what we create it. So how can we create our reality to be one that others are welcoming, that others are celebrated and uplifted in? I know when we made the choice to move to a bigger city, so many of my cis- straight friends, cisgender straight friends were like, wow, I don't understand why you're leaving this city. And I was like, I just, want a little bit more acceptance and a little bit more opportunity and all this. And they were like, really, you don't find acceptance here. And I was like, I just don't. And I can't explain it to you. And they're like, yeah, That's so strange. Cause I love you. And I'm like, that's great. But this town has an energy that is not welcoming to people it doesn't understand. And it's almost like the town was so old that people had just given up understanding. And big kudos to the people that are in the queer community and doing amazing work in that town. But my goodness, I couldn't take it anymore. I was like, nope, this is just my story. And I personally don't feel welcome and accepted and really celebrated. Cause that's what I should be for the amazing things I'm doing in life.
Abbie G:Right. And I think you have that boundary with that. Like as much as you want, you have your friends there as a community. I think, you know, you know, it's time to move on. No, that's really great that you were able to do that.
Courtney Nicole:What would you say is probably been the hardest part of your journey?
Abbie G:I would say accepting myself for you know, what success means to me. I think growing up as a child of Asian immigrants, it was really hard to be accepted, not as a straight person. So like my parents, they didn't take me coming out well, and I did not study to be a doctor, which is, stereotypically, a lot of Asian parents' dream. And I think also moving to Korea also was a big no-no for them. Cause it, it was almost like I went back to Asia when they came to the U S to leave that area to leave all that behind. And it felt like I was kind of a big bummer to them. And I think I'm still dealing with it now, but I've been able to set my boundaries with it. But really accepting that success for them isn't going to be the same for me as well. Like I've learned that success is finding happiness in what I create. Even if there's not many people watching it but it's still authentic. It's still represents my identity. And even if it's not the identity that my parents want, it's still something that means something to me. And it is, it's really hard to say that because I do love my parents, they did sacrifice a lot as immigrants, and I do hope that I come to a place where I'm able to show them who I am without having to prove myself. Because I think I've been on a journey of having to prove myself in so many aspects of my life, just because I was queer, I wasn't a doctor, and I live in a different country. So yeah, it's something I'm still working on. But luckily with the help of community and other people going through a similar journey as me has helped a lot.
Courtney Nicole:Yeah, I think when you're talking about having to prove yourself, it's basically if you imagine walking around knowing full well that you are four feet tall and people being like, no, you're not, you're not four feet tall and having to actually carry a tape measure and be like, no, I am. And take time out of your day for them to be like, okay. Oh, Oh, I see. All right, that's fine. And you're just like, okay. Yeah, we disagree that I'm four feet tall. Does that even have a huge bearing on your life? It's a big deal for me to know how tall I am, but when I know how tall I am, that shouldn't have any impact on you. I can just be your short friend. I'm good with that identity. I'm good with that label on top of the identity of what I really am. But if you imagine that it impacted more than just your gender or more than just your job or more than all these other things, that's like someone questioning your eye color and your weight and your height every time you want it to just become friends with them. And pretty soon what you have to carry, just to prove who you are, just to prove the reality that you already know inside you, or that maybe has been fluctuating a little bit and you've been learning, but to have to prove that to everyone else means carrying a really big backpack full of all this stuff. And all you want to do is just show up and be like, wow, you're just Courtney. Wow. You're just Abby G. Wow. I just love you for who you are. And I don't care how tall, how short, if that is what you have identified in yourself, if that's what you have come to believe that that's what is your truth, then I celebrate that and I accept it in my space not having to carry around all of those things, a scale and a tape measure and a, and a, and a is like really huge.
Abbie G:Right. Yeah, it does builds up. That's a great analogy. And I want to, can I use that? It's like amazing. Yeah, just having the visuals and everything though. That's so true,
Courtney Nicole:That's great. Yes, my superpower is speaking in analogy. My only fault with that is that I do mix metaphors quite a bit. But analogies are just fun because they make the harder concepts and they make more difficult aspects of our life more palatable and more workable and more something that we can handle to move through. Otherwise it's just, basically like cooking the food, the, you know, just needs to go through some stuff, needs some seasoning before people want to put it on their mouth.
Abbie G:right. No, that's, that's great.
Courtney Nicole:Cool. So tell me more about the community in South Korea and how you believe that that's going to be impactful in your personal journey of success.
Abbie G:Yeah. So the queer community in South Korea, it feels like it's newer essentially. Cause I think there's a lot of people who are still in the closet seeing it as conservative, especially a lot of Koreans that I meet, a lot of folks still live with their family, which is like a normal thing. And I think a lot of the older generations still are conservative towards that. So the younger folks, although they're more aware of it, they still have to be somewhat in the closet. So there's a lot more events like outside of their home. Like a lot of people, more people are being queer in queer spaces. But when it comes outside of that, they tend to come back in the closet, myself included due to, my workplace and stuff. And so there's definitely a lot more tip-toeing, but it is still there. But with that being said, there's so many activists here that are doing the work for trans rights, for non-binary representation, and there's a huge drag scene as well. And I, these drag Kings and Queens and royalty, people who are non-binary as well, they're doing a lot of work for not just queer spaces, but like artist representation in Korea. There's actually been like enough representation with the drag community where they've been sent over to the UK and have been able to collaborate in queer spaces and showing that Korea is queer too. Korea is not just conservative. And so that's been really beautiful to see and it's still definitely growing and I'm really excited to, to see the rest of that. And myself included. I hope to create more spaces specifically within Korea. I we need more of those spaces for both foreigners, for, for people visiting for the Koreans themselves. I think just creating that whole international space is so important.
Courtney Nicole:Love that. Yeah. And then true to the podcast name, What Our Parents Didn't Teach Us, for those that had an excellent relationship with their parents, I like to ask what our parents couldn't teach us. So I think that there are just realities that existed when our parents were growing up, when they were our age, when they were coming through different stages of life. That they literally didn't have the tools to teach us. That's like bringing back someone from the stone age and realizing they can't teach you how to use a DeWalt power saw. So in that vein, what do you think, I think are some of the lessons that you've learned that you don't believe your parents could have taught you? Like it's not their fault. It wasn't that they dropped the ball on any of this, but something that they just physically couldn't or mentally couldn't handle.
Abbie G:So that's a big one, but I think that's something I've been working through. I think definitely when it comes to mind, vulnerability. So just the power of it and not just how scary it is, but how important it is in our relationships and conversations in even the workplace. That vulnerability is such a powerful tool is our friend. And I think, I'm appreciative of how I can be aware of this, because I think growing up, my parents really, they didn't really show much emotions, I think. Being in a new country, being Asian, they had to really toughen up and really had to adapt. And part of that adaptation means not really showing an emotion. And I think learning from their experience and knowing that I can be vulnerable in my own relationships, and hopefully with them is something that I'd like to take for like the future for me, for my own family as well. So yeah. Just being open and even though a conversation or a topic or a new challenge is scary, that taking that risk and understanding the value of that is so important. So, I think the power of vulnerability is something that has really struck a chord with me.
Courtney Nicole:Ooh. Yeah. Vulnerability, such a powerful concept that so many people don't get the privilege of learning. Because it is scary. And I think things that are scary, we're taught scary means death. And I'm like, yeah, but we know we aren't cave men anymore. We need to evolve a little bit past that lizard brain way of thinking that scary means bad. Sometimes scary just means unknown. Like sometimes scary just means undiscovered. And I think there can be beauty in that, and especially in an analogy of journeys and how you're just like, no, that path has not walked yet. But that doesn't mean there aren't beautiful flowers along the way if you would just have the courage to step off the trail that everyone else has been blazing and everyone else has been using. Yeah. It'll probably take you longer to get to the top, but is the top really your goal? Or should you step off and just enjoy the beauty that you can make? I think for some ways, like our parents were probably stuck painting with the primary colors or our parents were like, no, I'm just going to paint something bright and they didn't understand the value that dark can play in bright because I think their parents came out of such a time of darkness that instead of learning how to use contrast, and dark really makes light brighter, they just said no dark. We're just going to paint with white and pastels. And all of a sudden they're like very pleasant and like beautiful things that are just looked like daylight itself. And I'm like, Ooh, daylight is okay. But anyone that's ever lived closer to the poles knows that sometimes daylight is just not conducive to what needs to happen: to sleep, to lifecycle, to your eyes knowing what to do. So I think just in general, it's hard for people that have had so much darkness to realize the power that darkness has in teaching us things that are really good, because sometimes the darkness is full of rest. Sometimes the darkness can mean focus in this room that I'm in. The darkness is helpful with sound. So darkness can be a tool just like everything else, but I think they didn't get the chance to learn with it because their parents were so terrified of it.
Abbie G:Right. Scary things can be scary at first, but at least you tried, even if it didn't come out to what you wanted it to. And I think having that in your belt, it's like a lot more rewarding than not doing it at all.
Courtney Nicole:Yeah, for sure. Also just think that like suffering and failure, and vulnerability and pain, like these are just phenomenal teachers. I don't know if you've read the Harry Potter series, but you realize like the depth that Snape has even after being painted as like this greasy- haired, frowny face meurnghhhh through all of the books, you realize the depth that can be formed in darkness. If you think of like the illustration of darkness in the ocean, some of our most fascinating fish, some of the best medicines that we have have come from discoveries of the deep, where the sun can't reach. So I'm just like, why are we afraid to go down there? Like I understand it's a little terrifying that you don't know, but what else could you find?
Abbie G:Right. Depth. Darkness has depth, honestly. No, that's great.
Courtney Nicole:Do you have any darkness in your life that you particularly want to shout out to for how much it's helped in your journey?
Abbie G:Honestly. Yeah, I think so. I do have I have anxiety and depression and I think it has been scary, especially being alone in Korea. But I think working through that and seeing how life can be as well, seeing the duplicity in life. And, seeing how life can be this you know, Gray, but also how life once out of that can be so colorful. I think the darkness, when I am depressed, when I'm anxious really also helps me appreciate what I do have. And I think that has helped me on my journey of seeing I am human, right? Because I'm going through, this is just another aspect that I'm human, that this is something to get through and that it's not the only thing in the world. Right? So, it's been really a good friend, even though it is a dark thing. But it's something that I've been able to change my relationship with it. So it's been, it's been a good time.
Courtney Nicole:That's beautiful. Do you have anything you would say to people that feel that they are currently in the darkness or the deep gray as you described it?
Abbie G:Yeah, I think honestly, the small things you realize when you're in the deep darkness and deep gray, I think, at least try the smallest bit of effort, I think helps a lot. Like I know when it feels like there's nothing to hold onto, when it feels like everything is just, wishy-washy, really take a moment and find the smallest thing in your room that that you can appreciate, whether it be like your coffee or like your notepad. And even if that takes doing every day, that's what I've had to do, sometimes it changes. Like a lot. And I think the smallest thing can make the biggest changes.
Courtney Nicole:Beautiful. All right. Well with that, I think we'll probably wrap up because I think that's a great note to end on.
Abbie G:wow.
Courtney Nicole:Is there anything else that you'd like to say as a parting word? And if people are like, Abby G is the shit, I want to follow them on all of their social, I want to consume more of this amazing content. What would you say is the number one place they can find you? Is it your podcast? Is it on Twitch? Which one would you say? Like go here and everything else will work itself out.
Abbie G:I would say Instagram because I have links to my bio. So if you want to follow me on Instagram, it is@AbsGarcia, A B S G A R C I A. And all the rest of my platforms are followed on there. So
Courtney Nicole:Perfect. Excellent. Well, thank you so much for being with us today. I have thoroughly enjoyed this conversation. Thank you for sharing your story and about vulnerability. I think it's really beautiful and I can't wait to hear what everyone else has taken away from this. Thanks so much for joining us for the podcast today, and I hope you learned some valuable lessons that will help you on your journey to success. If you're interested in coaching with me, you can check out Nonpareilcoaching.com. That's NONPAREILcoaching.com. Courtney Nicole can be found on most social medias. You can also slide into my DMS on Instagram@courtandwhiskey. If you're interested in being a guest on this podcast, you can check out our website it's just the acronym for what our parents didn't teach us.com. www.WOPDTU.com to be a guest on the podcast. You can find us wherever you find your podcasts. Don't forget: the universe is conspiring with you.